142 The Comeback: From 222 to Passing the PANCE in One Giant Leap

Hello and welcome to episode 142 of the Physician Assistant Exam Review Podcast. My name is Brian Wallace. I’m the host and creator here at Physician Assistant Exam Review. And I’ve been, since we finished up the blueprint, I’ve taken some time to go back through some interviews I’ve done with students talking about how they were able to change some things that they were doing in order to bring about great success. We’ve had people who were, over the last couple of weeks, we’ve had people who were asked to start over or decelerate. We’ve had people who failed anatomy classes. We had people who failed end of rotation exams.

We had people who, and today we’re going to bring someone who failed the PANCE. But all of these stories are so common. They’re ones I hear. And that’s what I want you to know. When I’m hearing from students, when I’m reading things online, I’m seeing how lonely people feel, how much they feel like it’s just them, that everyone else is smart. Let me promise you, that’s not the case. It’s one of the reasons why I built this platform is to demonstrate to you that’s 100% not the case.

There’s maybe 5% of people who feel good throughout all of PA school. I certainly wasn’t one of them. I don’t know many of them. Really, really not the case. A couple weeks ago, we went through Mary’s story. She was the valedictorian of our high school, graduated in three years with honors from her undergrad degree. I just found out one of my coaches who just about failed out of PA school was on the edge of failing out.

And I worked with him and he wound up doing great, you know, a huge testament to him and what he was able to do. He’s come back to help us. And I just found out the other night that he was in a workshop we were doing together, that he was the valedictorian of his high school. So I want to be clear, this isn’t about brains. It’s not about you’re capable, you’re not capable, you’re a good tester, you’re not, it’s just a set of skills, right? It’s a set of ways you go about doing things. And the more I work with students, the more I see that it’s the case.

It’s, yes, content material matters, but it’s your approach to the content material. It’s your approach to it as though you are a test taker, not as though I have to learn every single thing under the sun. I was talking with a student the other day and I was trying to discuss with her about limiting how much she was studying. And one of the things she was saying is, I can’t because I don’t feel like I’m going to be a good practitioner if I don’t know every single thing. And one of the things I try to get across to the students I work with is that you can’t know everything. It’s really not possible. You also are only, once you graduate, are only going to be right on the edge of beginning what you’re going to learn.

I know that seems insane when you’re in PA school because there’s so much you’re getting, but I promise you, you are getting a solid foundation of medicine and a place to begin your learning about how you’re going to be a practitioner. That’s really, really where it begins. I was just listening to something with a John Wooden quote where he says, what really matters is what you learn after you know it all. And that’s really what happens next. So my goal is to get students through PA school, through the PANCE, making sure that they graduate, making sure that they get the grades they need, make sure they pass the PANCE. The goal for me is to keep students in the game so that they can keep working and keep learning. That’s the goal.

Anyway, I don’t want to go too far down that. What I wanted to share with you today was an interview I shared earlier in the podcast feed with Nicole, but it’s such an amazing story. She went from a 222 on her first attempt on the PANCE to a 359 all in one shot. And that kind of jump is just phenomenal. I mean, I think we do really well here, but that’s just completely out of the ordinary for what even we’ve been able to accomplish for the average student. So, I wanted to share her story so you get some insight into how she talks about the test, how she felt about it, what that transition was like, and some of the things that she changed. And maybe you can see those in yourself.

Even if you’re in PA school currently, take what she’s talking about and use it for that, right? It’s all transferable. Don’t just think, oh, she’s talking about the PANCE. It doesn’t apply to me. It 100% applies to you. It’s basically the same ideas, the same structure all throughout PA school.

All right. The one thing I do want to mention before we jump into her interview is that the November cohort of the 33 Days to Pass the PANCE program is having registration this week. It closes up on Saturday, October 25th. I think it’s the 25th. We already have a well-rounded class. I’m really, really excited about it. But if you find yourself struggling, if you find yourself in a position where you feel like you’re the only one and you want to work with the community, you want to work with getting some new skills, some of the things Nicole talks about in this interview, go to physicianassistantexamreview.com/33 and check that out.

See if it might be a good fit for you. We’d love to have you. But again, registration closes on Saturday. So you really got to get a move on. Our first onboarding meeting is Monday night. I’m losing the dates, but it’s Monday, either October 26th or 27th, to make sure everyone’s in and ready to go on the first that we launch and we’re ready to rock and roll and really cruise through that. The one thing I want to touch on just talking about the 33 Days program, you can hear Nicole talk about it.

You can do this while you’re in your clinical year. This is not designed to overwhelm you. It’s one of the reasons we do it over 33 Days. It’s designed to fit into and around your schedule. I built the entire thing with the idea of a clinical PA student in mind so that I would know that they would have the time to do what I’m asking. It’s one of the reasons why it takes a long time.

All right, without further ado, I’m going to go ahead and start Nicole’s interview. So go ahead and check this out. I think you’re really going to love it. Nicole, welcome. I’m so excited to have you here. You emailed me a couple of days ago with some exciting news, but I want to get your story from the start so we can share it with people. So to begin with, can you describe to me your situation that you had found yourself in when you were looking to maybe do something a little bit differently?

Yeah, so I took my test the first time in January and, you know, thought I was ready, thought I did all the right things, you know, took the test and obviously didn’t get the result that I wanted. So, at first, I was pretty devastated, of course. Like The first few days, I was you know kind of down on myself, and then I’m like, okay, what can I do to improve this situation? And I had listened to your podcast in the past, and I was aware of your 33 Days course. So, I’m like, okay, like let’s give this a shot.

Let’s sign up for it. So, that was the first change that I made, was doing your course, which helped a ton. But I knew that I had to make like, huge adjustments to be able to jump the amount of points that I did.

So let’s back you up just a second. So and again, not to make this too, too painful, but I know we have a better end to this story. So can you walk me through a little bit about getting that, you know, how you felt during your first exam? You know, and then what happened after that? So I felt really overwhelmed. For some reason, seeing the time that I had, kind of gave me a lot of anxiety. So I found myself on every section, I think, on the last 10 questions, I was pretty much had to speed speed read.

And, you know, I didn’t really have time to think about my answers. I didn’t have any time to go back and even review any of my flagged a question. So, but I still left feeling kind, I mean, I was kind of uneasy, but I’m like, you know, I hope I passed. I think I passed. I’m not sure. So I think just going into the exam itself, I thought I was ready, but I really wasn’t. And a lot of it has to do with the anxiety, kind of all those things together.

So then obviously you got your scores back, which showed that you didn’t do as well as you had hoped that you would do. And then what happened from there? What’s the next move? What starts to happen as you start to see that you’re, and again, I know that this has a happy ending is why I’m going to push on this just for a second. Because I hear from so many students and I find so many students in this situation, as you don’t get the score you want, as your members of your cohort do come back with passing scores and you start to see what’s going on. Can you describe that a little bit for us? Yeah.

So I knew I had to make huge adjustments. One of them was, with the testing anxiety. So I had previously been diagnosed with ADHD, which was after PA school. And I wish I would have kind of dove into that sooner because getting that diagnosed was like step one that helped a ton. So I had the medication for that on the first exam. So I went back to that same psychiatrist that I saw and I was explaining to him kind of how I was feeling during the exam and, the anxiety I had and all that. And, he was willing to write me a note, to try to get accommodations approved.

So I wouldn’t have to worry about the timing. Well, still worry about the timing, but not have as much pressure on me to answer it and answer each question in a minute. So we were able to get that approved. He wrote me a note, and he also gave me some propranolol as well to take during the test. So I was able to get the accommodations approved, and I was able to take the test over two days. So I took it over two consecutive days, which I think made a night and day difference. And so I was able to, you know, comfortably read the questions, think about it for a second.

I had plenty of time to go back and review my answers because that’s just something that I’ve always struggled with. Either I read too fast or I read too slow. There was no happy medium. So having the extra time helped a ton. So that was like a huge adjustment in itself, just getting that. And then of course signing up for your course. I pretty much tried everything you recommended.

I hadn’t used flashcards in a long time, probably in years. And I went back to that, which was a huge game changer because, just with the active recall, I wasn’t, I wasn’t doing that prior. I would study something and move on, but I wouldn’t revisit what I already studied. And that was a huge, huge, you know, change that I made as well. And following your schedule, I think I went through PANCE Prep Pearls twice, like thoroughly. And that’s how I made my flashcards from that. So and then, of course, the dailies walking outside.

I tried to do 30 minute walk outside. And this is in February in Ohio. So it was, you know, not great weather. You know, I didn’t want to do it a lot, but I think that helped a ton too. And then with the water, the sleep, I think just kind of, you know, doing everything I possibly can to make sure that I maximize my chances at passing the second time. Yeah. And ideally, that’s exactly what we do within the program, right?

That’s the idea is that we’re trying to maximize you and make you into the best possible learner, the best possible test taker for that specific day. And it sounds like you did a lot of the things to get yourself into that position. I love that you touched on the active versus passive setting. I was just talking with the students in the current cohort about the idea of efficiency versus efficacy. And it’s something I’ve been thinking a lot about where those two curves cross, meaning it’s slow and painful to write out flashcards. So nobody wants to do it, but it works as opposed to using them off an Anki deck or something else that someone else made. That’s a good, and it’s quick, and it is helpful.

I’m not saying it’s not, but there’s such a difference when you put in that work, when you put in that time. And that’s something I try to get across to the students within the 33 Days program, not just with flashcards, but with so many different things. It’s that we’re so, I think we’re so geared toward that efficiency. How quick can I get through it? How fast can I move? How quick? And moving fast makes it so we, we don’t retain nearly as much as we should be.

We don’t see what’s important in there. Yeah. And I think, going along those lines, I, I was already graduated. I was able to really isolate myself and kind of dedicate the time, you know, eight plus hours a day or however much it ended up being. I wish I would have kept track of the time that I actually studied. But I think, you know, I didn’t really have many other things to do. So, I was able to really, like, okay, this is my number one priority right now.

And, you know, this is what I need to do. And I was staying with family at the time, so I didn’t have to worry about, you know, my dad didn’t make me pay rent or pay for food or anything like that. So, you know, that was a huge kind of stressor off of me. So I think also too, if, you know, students in your current cohort and beyond like can really make this their number one priority, I think that helped a ton too. I think that’s great. That’s something that I try to get across people, even when it just comes to taking the PANCE, you know, the people I find who really struggle are the people who are getting married the week before who are moving out of their apartment. And of course, all these things happen at the end of PA school, because that’s kind of the timeline that you’re on.

But when you’re, you know, you don’t think you’re distracted, but your energy is so depleted by the end of PA school that adding these major stressors, I think is huge. So, when you can, you know, whether you go through this program or not, but if you can make the PANCE your number one priority for this set amount of time, you know, I see people who take it a second, a third, to fourth time, and still haven’t wholeheartedly committed to that, and are still trying to hold together you know, singing in the church group, doing this, doing that, which are all wonderful things, except you have to get through this one. And if you could make it the number one priority, it can change a lot for how you work and how you retain and how you function. Right. Yeah. So I knew, I, I feel like, especially with the score I had, I knew I had to change like everything. Because the way I was studying before clearly wasn’t working.

So I think it’s important to to kind of identify, you know, not only the areas you’re lacking as far as knowledge, but, you know, am I doing everything efficiently is the way I’m studying working? Am I getting enough sleep? Am I having, you know, getting enough water exercise? I think all that plays a huge role, kind of in building the foundation. And I know you stress that a lot during your program, you know, how important it is to get the exercise and the water and everything. So yeah, I know everyone’s different. Everyone’s in a different situation, but I think really taking the time to figure out what works best for you and kind of putting your ego aside and which was a big deal for me too.

Very difficult. Yeah, like you can’t, what you were doing before clearly didn’t work. So you have to change something. And I love that right there. That’s just beautiful. And the fact that you could do that. There are so many people who are like, nope, I’m just going to work harder.

And you’re like, well, that’s great. Except doing more of what’s not working is not always a good choice. Sometimes it’s a good choice, but maybe not this time. And maybe look for something a little bit different, which completely makes sense. But I see people who do this, you know, continue in that cycle and they buy the next review course and they buy the next review course and they buy the next review course. And not that review courses aren’t great, but you’re essentially still studying in the same manner, still showing up in the same manner. You’re still doing the same work.

And then people wonder why their results don’t change. But that’s a big part of it. But it’s setting aside that ego that what got you this far suddenly isn’t working. And that’s hard to set aside for a minute, especially when you’re this far along into your career as a student. Mm hmm. Yeah. And the PANCE is unlike any exam that I ever took in PA school.

It’s not I think the most similar question bank is the Rosh slash blueprint now after taking it twice and after doing some UWorld questions and Rosh and, you know, all the things I think that would be the question bank that I recommend the most is Rosh. I thought that was the closest, but still wasn’t, the, I don’t even know how to describe the questions on the PANCE. They’re just like totally different than, you know, any other questions I ever encountered. And, you know, it’s really hard to prepare for the, you know, out of left field questions that you get as well. So, yeah, I just tried to be as prepared as I could as possible. And that was, you know, going through PANCE Prep Pearls, basically with a fine tooth comb. So I also think it’s hard to prepare for the five hours of sitting in that chair or reading and concentrating and being at your best for that long a period of time.

Yeah. And I haven’t touched on this yet today, but I know I talked to you about it prior, but I had a job offer, a dermatology fellowship that I had a job offer for. So they basically told me, like, if you don’t pass your second time, like, we’re going to have to, you know, basically take this away from you. So that was another huge, like, motivator for me. Like, I know it wasn’t life or death, but it kind of felt like that because I’m like, this is the job I want. This is my dream job. This is, you know, the specialty I want to go into.

So, you know, in hindsight, I’m glad I had that job. But, you know, if I were to do things differently, maybe I would have waited until after I took the PANCE and was certified and then tried to find a job just to kind of take that extra pressure off. But, you know, it kind of goes both ways. Like it, it, you know, motivated me to work harder because I had, you know, something else that I needed to work towards and really wanted. So, but then on the, you know, on the other end, it put a lot of extra stress on me. So I can see both sides of it, but I’m happy. I’m happy that I still have my job and, you know, they were understanding and, and all of that.

So, you know, just all good things ahead. Yeah. That’s a question I have trouble answering for people when they ask me about when to start looking and how that works. And it’s very individual as to whether that pressure is going to be good for you or not so good for you. And unfortunately, people kind of have to make that decision knowing themselves, which isn’t always easy, especially when you’re excited to get out into the world as you should be. But it’s tough to know how that pressure is going to apply and whether you’re going to see it as something great to look forward to or as extra making an extra challenge that, oh, if I don’t pass this, what happens? Right, right, exactly.

But yeah, so all good things ahead. You know I’m trying to work on getting my licensure and everything now and you know kind of all the all the extra things that come with after passing the exam. But Well, hold on. You get to the end of the story first.

Let’s back up a little bit more. So, you said you had listened to the podcast, you had been in the community, and you had seen the 33 Days cohort sort of roll by. And I’m assuming after you’ve got the score that said you didn’t pass, you said, Hey, wait a minute. Let me take a look at something different. Can you tell me that decision process a little bit or share that with us some. So I kind of looked into the one-on-one tutoring, but you know, that’s really, really expensive. I, I’m a person that does better if somebody is telling me kind of what to do on a daily basis, which, you know, is kind of how your program set up.

Like you don’t, like you tell us, you know, you’re doing DERM this day, you’re doing GU this day, all of that. So I kind of put the one-on-one tutoring aside. I was like, that’s, that’s way too much. And then I can, you know, your program is, you know, you offer the group setting kind of approach to, you know, studying for the PANCE and you give us the calendar and everything. So I think that was really helpful, like knowing what to do on a daily basis. Yeah. So I’m just one of those people that I kind of do better when I have some direction from somebody else.

So having the content calendar and the direction we found to be really helpful. Yes, yes, absolutely. And then the other piece, because there’s so many different pieces to this, the other piece that you seem to be touching on is the group setting. Was that something? How did that help you to utilize what you were doing and make it better? Yeah, so the Social Lair is really helpful because, you know, you would post on there. Other people would post questions in there.

You know, other, I think someone posted kind of a chart that they use to break down, you know, things more more in depth. And then just having, you know, knowing that there’s, you know, a group of, you know, 20 to 30 people who are going through the same thing that you’re going through. People that you could relate to because, you know, I mean, at this point, you know, all, most So my friends had already passed the PANCE and, you know, we’re kind of in a different timeline than I was. So just having, knowing that there’s people to talk to and knowing that you’re just like an email or a question away, you know, is super helpful and, and all that as well. So, yeah, I mean, the group, the group setting was something that really drew me to your program for sure. That’s great. I was just talking, we just had a meeting last night with the current cohort.

And one of the things we were touching on is we’re about 20 days in and that lull that’s occurring for everybody where you’re super excited at the beginning. And then there’s sort of this slog that sort of hit of like, oh, I still have to keep going. And I was talking to them about how, you know, as you get closer, that’ll pick up. Did you find that to be the case? I know 33 Days when people start seems like a short amount of time, but all of a sudden it seems really long in the middle of it, especially if something goes wrong. People’s, you know, your cat gets sick, your grandma winds up in the hospital, you have other things to take care of. And all of a sudden, you’re like, wait, how do I manage all of this?

Yeah, so like you said, in the beginning, you know, super motivated, super like, okay, I’m going to, you know, take as many hours of the day as I need, you know, to get through everything and all that. But yeah, I would say around day 20, you know, the fatigue kind of sets in and I didn’t take any days off, I was able to follow the calendar as is and do every single day. Nice. Which was great. But yeah, towards the end, you’re just kind of like, you got to dig deep and kind of remember your why and what you’re working towards and, you know, why you’re doing this. And it kind of, you know, helps you push through, you know, the final 10 days or 15 days or whatever it is. And then I knew I was taking my exam in April.

So finishing the February cohort, I knew I had an an extra month, which I think was extremely, extremely helpful. Cause I was, I took your advice and I went back to the beginning.

Okay. Nice. Went back to the beginning and kind of, you know, did everything again, thoroughly, like went through PANCE Prep Pearls again, you know, did I miss something? Is there something that’s standing out to me this time that wasn’t the first time? So I think having that second month to kind of, you know, dive back in what, you know, was a huge game changer as well. Cause honestly, I don’t think I was ready at the end of February to take the exam. You know, I’ll be completely honest, you know, some people might be, but I just wasn’t one of those people.

I didn’t feel ready yet, but going through the material the second time, and I was constantly using my flashcards and changing them and adding and updating them. And, you know, like, you know, this doesn’t make sense. Let me reword this. And especially coming across studying, if I was having trouble with a certain area, I would kind of look back like, okay, like, what did I write on this flashcard? Like, why isn’t it sticking? Do I need to change something, change the wording, add, you know, add more keywords or whatever the case may be. So yeah, I would recommend if you have the time to go back through the material again and at least take another month to do it, I would highly recommend that.

Yeah. Again, that seems to be a personal decision that I go back and forth. Some people ask me, I literally just got the question this morning was, you know, how long a space should I give? And that tends to be the zone that I like is about three-ish weeks. Some people like to take it right away. Other people want it two months after. So I kind of settled on that like three weeks, three to four weeks.

You have some time to utilize the things we teach, practice them. And like you know, I go through in the program a lot, the idea of iterative learning and going back and touching, like you’re talking exactly like you’re talking about, and make and fine tuning the things that you know and kind of locking them in from that superficial time on that first couple of passes to really getting into it as you go through it multiple times. So that’s fantastic that you did that. That’s great. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And I don’t, I don’t think if I would have taken more time than that, I don’t think it would have been beneficial for me. I think I would have not, not been unmotivated, but I think just, I was ready to get it over with. I felt ready. So it’s just a personal decision that like, like you said, everyone’s different. Everyone has a different knowledge base that they’re comfortable with. And so, yeah. So for me personally, I think three to four weeks extra after your four week program was great, but it kind of depends on the person.

And my fear is always that person who just keeps putting it off, putting it off, putting it off. And then you stop, you actually stop studying, you stop learning. And that’s always why I’m like, I’d almost rather you take it a touch early than allow that to happen because I’ve definitely seen it happen to people. But I think somewhere in that range does sound pretty good.

All right. So you got through the program, you spent another three, four weeks working on your own, going back through everything, practicing. Can you walk me through a little bit walking into the building now having to do that again? Yeah. So I took it in Cleveland, Ohio. There’s three testing centers that are available that were within a decent amount of distance for me. The first time I took it, I took it at one testing center.

And then actually the second time I took it at one testing center one day, and then a totally different one the second day, just because that’s how the schedule lined up. And I wanted to do it back to back. So, you know, that kind of just is what it was. You know, I walked in, not really, I wouldn’t say I was nervous. I was feeling pretty confident. I was confident in what, you know, all the work I put in. I had my snacks, I had my water.

I you know had a good breakfast beforehand. Had my coffee. Kind of All the things that I knew would put me in the best place possible to take the exam. And then having already been through it once, you know I already knew. And then having already gone through it once, I knew exactly what to expect. You know How the breaks worked. How you know the little cubo sitting in the little cubicle, you can get the headphones and everything.

You know, I think knowing being through that already helped ease my anxiety a lot as well. But yeah, I just like if you could go take a practice like 60 question block there, it’d be nice. That would be really nice just to like get the feel for it of you know, what exactly it is because you don’t know until you’re actually in it. So the first, I’d say the first few sections, I was still kind of nervous, but way better than the first time I took it. And then when I got to day two, I, you know, felt great. I was ready to get it done. I felt, you know, extremely confident.

I didn’t have any anxiety at all. And then I kind of utilized the breaks to how you would recommend it. Like if you have, if you can like go outside, you know, walk around the parking lot, don’t look on your phone, you know, kind of take that simple, straightforward ideas. Yeah. Like, you know, take that time as an actual break. So I think that was super helpful as well. Cause the first time around, you know, I was trying to look stuff up and which isn’t helpful because you can’t go back.

Like, no, it just it just gives you more anxiety because you’re like, oh, I got that wrong. I got that wrong. You know, maybe I got this right. I don’t know. And just, you know, causing yourself more stress that you don’t need to need to do to yourself. So.

All right. So definitely walking out of there, you felt a little bit better than you did the first time around. That seems pretty clear. So then walk us through getting that email. So I knew taking it two days in a row. So I knew it would be about four or five business days until I got the results because I knew other people who did two days in a row with accommodations and it took them five business days. So for me, it took me five business days.

So I took it on a Tuesday, Wednesday. I got the email on Wednesday morning. And I’m in Arizona already at this point. So it’s, you know, a few hours behind Eastern Standard Time. So I think they sent me the email at 5:30 a.m. I woke up at 6:30 got the email, and I was I was actually very scared to open it. I was like How long did it take you to click the button?

Probably a good 30 minutes. Like I was just like staring at it. My roommate was wasn’t up yet, so she like I couldn’t go you know bother her and, you know come you know, come do this with me, hold my hand type of thing. But yeah, I opened it and saw the pass and, you know, I can’t explain how happy I am kind of overwhelmed with joy and just, you know, kind of all the things and, you know, just extremely happy that I don’t have to go through that again. Who was the first person you shared it with? My roommate. She’s also a PA.

We went to PA school together and decided to stay out in Arizona together. So she was the first one that I told and, you know, she was, you know, so happy for me because, you know, she said after the fact, she’s like, you know, if you would have failed again, like, you know, the whole atmosphere of this house would have been bad. Like it would have been bad for everybody. So selfishly she needed you to pass so then she’d have a good month. Yeah, it would be, it would have been bad for not only me, but her too, because she would have to live with me. That’s great. Yeah.

But yeah, so extremely happy. Like just knowing that all the hard work that I put in paid off. So yeah. And that’s gotta be such an incredible feeling. Can you share with everybody how many points you went up? So, it was 137 points. I went from a 222 to a 359.

So, you know, still, still not like the greatest score, but you know, I was happy with, I was like, you know what? I don’t care if I get a 350 exactly. Nope. And to be honest, no one else does. I’ve never had one person in my entire life. That’s not true. The six of us on my team joking around about a month ago, all compared our graduation scores to each other.

But that’s 15 years out of school is the first time anyone’s ever asked me what my scores were. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, like you said, nobody cares. You just need the pass, you know, to do everything that you need to do. So, but of course, like, you know, at the same time, I’m like, Oh, well, you know, I thought I did a little bit better than that. You know, you’re still mad about it.

Yeah. At the end of the day, everyone’s like, you know, you pass, like who cares? And it’s not just pass. It’s moving your score that much is a tremendous, absolutely tremendous achievement. You know, I do see people move 100 or 150 points. I have seen it happen, but it’s pretty rare. Quite honestly, the average within our program is about 53 points ish.

That’s a little biased, right? Because I only hear back from the people who want to share with me. But moving at 100, you know, over 100 points is just a phenomenal accomplishment and something for you to look back on. You know, Moving forward, I try to express to people, like, as much as this was a tough time, you know, how exciting of a story do you now have to say that I’m someone who can overcome this, I’m someone who can put in the work and show that I can do this despite having a flaw? You know, People ask me, how do I handle job, you know, You don’t have this problem because you’re headed to a job. But people say, you know, what do I do about a job? If I failed the PANCE?

And I say, look, you have a great story of accomplishment, you don’t have a failure, you have a you have a turnaround story to say, I did get beat up. And look at me, I got myself back up, got to work and won, like, that’s a, I want that person on my team. Yeah. And I know I, I had talked to you about that as well. I told you I had the job offer and you know, you told me like, I think you told me a story about a previous student who lost a job, but then got an even better one. It happens all the time. Yeah.

So it’s, you know, everything happens for a reason for sure. But I can’t emphasize enough to everyone who’s listening that you have to, you have to put in the work, you have to make the changes. Because even your course, like you give us all the tools, but we still have to do the work. That’s the hard, That’s the hard part for me is is, is I can give you everything. But, but I, you know, And then the phrase I use throughout the program is you can buy a Peloton, but if you use it for a drying rack, it isn’t going to make you lose any weight or get you in any kind of shape. Right. So we’re, we’re here to support you and build that framework and show you the tools.

But that’s why when people reach out to me and say, you know, thanks for all your help. And I say, I can immediately turn it around and say, this is, you know, I’m happy to do my part, But it doesn’t work without everything that you’ve done is probably 85 to 90% of that. I’ll take I’ll take my five to 10% credit. But beyond that, it’s you have to do the work. No, yeah. I mean, honestly, like I, I don’t know how I would have studied this time around if I didn’t take your course, because it was a lot of the tools that you gave me that totally changed my mindset. Like, you know, you’re right, I have to do more active studying.

You know, I wasn’t doing that before. And yeah, so I’m just like incredibly thankful that, you know, I came across you and your course because you were definitely a huge part in what I changed to make this happen. So thanks again for everything. My pleasure, but I’ll take 5% credit for it.

Now, just to wrap up, you have an amazing story. You have an amazing accomplishment. I’m thrilled that you are now moving on to what’s going to be obviously an amazing career You’re doing a job that you’re super interested in. The one thing I’d ask you at the end here is just if you had something to say to people who are on the fence, who are looking over the program and we’re thinking, oh, maybe I’ll do it. Maybe it’s expensive. Maybe I don’t know if I could commit to it. Maybe it’s a little long.

I’m not sure exactly what it looks like. What’s one thing that you could share with them to sort of help them make that decision? Because it’s not an easy decision, I assume, being on that side and not being. And it’s a little hard for me to explain because there’s so many moving parts to it that it’s a little difficult even when people ask me questions on it, how to handle that. So if you could just give one piece of advice or one thing that you could share with them that could help them to make that decision. So I would say definitely putting your ego aside and knowing that accepting the help, like knowing that kind of one, figuring out what you need to work on. And your course might not be best for everyone.

And like I said, like you’re not holding our hands, like you’re giving us the tools, but we have to put in the work. So if you’re looking for a program that’s going to give you the tools, going to give you a community, you know, kind of back you up in every way possible with kind of all the things you offer, then I would say, you know, this is the program for you. And, you know, I know it’s expensive, but it’s, you know, less expensive than one on one tutoring. So, yeah, I would say kind of just go for it, especially if you’re if you don’t know what to do. You’ve done X, Y and Z. And it was a huge game changer for me to do your course. That’s great.

Thank you. You know, that’s the phrase that I’ve started to attach to is when you don’t know what else to do. When you’ve done all of the things you can do and you’re frustrated and you’re not sure. That’s the part that I like to fill in. Exactly. So great. Thank you so much.

I really appreciate it. I think everyone who listens to this is going to appreciate it. I know there’s so many people who are in your same boat, in your same shoes, who are concerned, who have tried things that haven’t really worked. And I just want to leave them with the idea that things can change, right? You can learn new things. You can get better at this game, whether that’s through the things that I show or teach or wherever you get it from. But there are so many ways that even though you think you may have exhausted your resources and what you’re doing, it’s just not true.

There’s so many different tools out there that can help and change your approach in what you’re doing. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you again for everything. I really appreciate it.

All right, great. Thank you so much, Nicole. Take care.

All right, that was fantastic. I really hope you were taking notes. If not, go back through this. It seems like she’s talking about small little things. She’s not. She seems like she’s talking about the PANCE. She’s not.

She’s talking about all of it, your PA school, whether you’re didactic, your clinical, wherever you are, the skills and impact that you can have in what you’re doing. The answer isn’t just working harder. It’s figuring out a better way. It’s figuring out a different approach. So I encourage you to go through and take to heart the things that she had to say and how she was able to make that kind of a jump. Again, I just want to close out. If you were in a position where you are looking for some help, if you’ve tried everything, like we said in the interview, if you’ve tried everything and can’t seem to get those scores to move, believe me, you haven’t tried everything.

I’d love to work with you in the November cohort. The next cohort will be in February in 2026. That’ll be the next one. But this one runs beginning November 1st, physicianassistantexamreview.com/33. If you’d like to get some new ways to approach your exam, some new ways to approach your studies so that you can get more done in less time and see your scores go up, I promise you that’s the design of the program. That’s how it works. So I’d love to have you as part of it.

Anyway, that’s it for today. Take care, best luck in your exams and I look forward to talking to you again next week.